Moparscape - RSPS Community

Announcements => MoparScape Announcements => Topic started by: Tom on September 06, 2015, 08:31:58 PM

Title: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Tom on September 06, 2015, 08:31:58 PM
That the Official MoparScape server has taken a serious set back.

Namely, we've lost our main and only developer: Sini (sinisoul). He worked alone on the server, putting in many hours to create the most efficient and time compatible solutions to problems. It's safe to say his work will be sorely missed, even more so because it will be unfinished. Our ex-developer, Sini, has his prospects set on a new game entirely called Thornefall founded by a reputable member, and ex-administrator Taharok (Avail). I'd like to personally thank sini for his dedication, and ask others to respect his decision to focus on another project instead.

The show must go on, there was recently a small staff meeting regarding the situation and I'd like to personally invite the thoughts of the community too. It's always very disappointing and familiar when community projects fail, I funded this one myself without the assistance of moparisthebest and I feel a deep sense of loss for all the time and money I've invested but we mustn't let this set us back. Already a plan has been drawn up to host another server where content is a lot more existent and updates for this will be due within the next few weeks, others may complain this isn't an achievable dream but consistency is key with anything.

We do need your help, gathering data such as drops and NPC locations, so if you're able to do even the most basic of tasks please drop me a PM! :) Once again, you've my sincerest apologies for this, but there is only so much I'm able to do. :(

You can find sini's personal reasoning below:

I'm sorry to announce publicly that after today I will no longer be involved with the official server or any serious Runescape emulation projects. I say that with a heavy heart, and I'm grateful to Tom and Davidi2 for the chance and time we spent together trying to create an emulator for the community. I've been apart of many projects over the years and I've met a lot of great people but I feel as if my time with Runescape emulation has grown beyond that of what can help me grow as a programmer and that I need to move on. Notably I had a great time working on the Moparscape server, both the original and my rendition, PRS06, my creations, and Silabgarza. I wouldn't be the programmer I am today without this community and I don't regret the hundreds of hours I spent trying to push the boundaries of emulators or research new topics.

I think this post, as dramatic as it may sound, is speaking to the community. Runescape is growing old, and the excitement that came with trying to discover how Jagex as a company operated at least for me died two years ago with the decline in the games popularity. My passion these past few years were driven by my taste to try and see a rise in the community, and have these adventures once more but I know now that isn't plausible.

I was content on working on the server until recently I became involved with a project outside of Runescape emulation. This opportunity opened my eyes to the skills I could possess that are outside of emulation and the choice was simple. I have found that in the past year I have decided I want to get into game development so I can create a similar feeling to how I felt when I first loaded into Runescape about ten years ago with everyone.

I suggest to you that you try not to take this all as serious as some of you may, although taking this seriously is wise, I think everyone is really sensitive about how their image stands among people. I wish I spent more of my time instead of getting offended by how people saw me had more fun, and just enjoyed the ride. It went by fast, six years now I've been developing servers since the age of 14 and now looking back I know at least I accomplished much. I had a lot of feuds, I made a lot of friends. Making emulators can lead to skills to land you a job but it's very limited because of the limitations of creativity you constrain yourself to. I found it hard to advance past the level I reached because I simply didnt understand all the nuances of the game client and the architecture of design.  People still are learning things today, and I think those skills are better applied to creating instead of emulating. There is a lot of talent here, it just needs better focus instead of wasting effort on something that is too niche.

With those remarks, thank you seriously to the following people. Silabsoft for providing a good bounty of information and security testing the server, Tom for helping me get the server to the point it was, Davidi2 for ideas and your dedication to trying to help me move my work forward, Taharok for giving me helpful advice on programming when I needed it, Lothy for bouncing ideas back and forth when we had nothing to do, Zuppers for testing and providing critical information for the server.

Thanks.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Davidi2 on September 06, 2015, 08:40:53 PM
Without sinisoul to bring his current base up to par in terms of being able to create content, the only logical steps are to either use a pre-created base and simply host it or go back to the base we were using originally and work from there. sinisoul wrote the base off as garbage and a failure, but I think we know (just based on the quality of servers that have worked before) that you don't have to have a perfectly designed source to have one that works and is fun to play. As I've stated before, I don't have as much time to work on the base as I used to. But when I have free time I do work on it (I did an updated showoff recently for my construction development) and others can work on it as well if they desire.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: sini on September 06, 2015, 08:42:32 PM
Godspeed my friend.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: zuppers on September 06, 2015, 08:54:18 PM
Time to switch gears I guess.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Rash on September 06, 2015, 09:05:08 PM
just use pi its the best
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: ox random xi on September 06, 2015, 09:19:55 PM
i really hope it doesnt fall to the dust
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: doom_j on September 06, 2015, 09:21:46 PM
Sad news. Good luck with your future adventures!
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: the elve age on September 06, 2015, 09:25:07 PM
sini don't care  :confused:
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Pure_ on September 06, 2015, 10:12:37 PM
yoooo im developing thornefall XD ROTFL
hey jagex umad we remade ur cache lmfao gl suing us
lfmao exrdrotfl
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: casey. on September 06, 2015, 10:13:49 PM
wow i feel scammed i donated 50m RSGP for a donator crown when the server came out...
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Davidi2 on September 06, 2015, 10:14:31 PM
I hear the market is really primed for another runescape type game tho Pure_ ayy lmao
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: EcoPS GM on September 06, 2015, 10:45:34 PM
That's unfortunate, I had been following the development of that project. It was coming along quite nicely!
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: JonThor on September 07, 2015, 12:05:45 AM
Yay! We finally go beyond and try to go independent from Jagex. Jagex is no longer a Monopoly that copies people anymore.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: naseem142 on September 07, 2015, 01:49:51 AM
i'd be glad to help but how can some people like me help that have little to no experience in coding? I really don't want this to end..
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Lothy on September 07, 2015, 02:18:58 AM
inb4 Silabsoft's reply.


EDIT: By the way, there's a fair bit of truth in Sinisoul's post. There's not much else to do in the RS scene. Everything has been done to death.


Also, the OSRS community operated by Jagex has undermined this community in the sense that people can get their nostalgia fix from the source.
With that in mind, why was this being pursued at financial cost to you Tom?
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: drubrkletern on September 07, 2015, 02:38:13 AM
called it in the thread
the notorious waiting for x to go away to continue work phase death of all projects


no beeferino sinerino
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: RuneAgent on September 07, 2015, 04:48:41 AM
I can't say I am surprised about this project being abandoned, Not because sinisoul has always been a flake and always will be a flake when it comes to projects but because almost everyone that has the ability to write an rsps private server really can't be bothered. We are all old now we have jobs and other interests. Yes we all have that nostalgic moment to get back into writing something Runescape related but realistically the motivation lasts only a few days or so. It's time to just face the facts that unless some new blood comes in and is really passionate about the game no one is going to be bothered to complete a server and until someone shows some real promise i'd advise tom not to be putting money into the project.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Tree on September 07, 2015, 08:15:44 AM
I don't blame Sini.
Nobody cares about private servers anymore. Or cheating. Or this game.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: casey. on September 07, 2015, 09:41:23 AM
I don't blame Sini.
Nobody cares about private servers anymore. Or cheating. Or this game.
Or Tree.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Tree on September 07, 2015, 10:41:15 AM
I don't blame Sini.
Nobody cares about private servers anymore. Or cheating. Or this game.
Or Tree.

:(
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Davidi2 on September 07, 2015, 11:31:27 AM
Nobody cares about private servers anymore. Or cheating. Or this game.
I don't think that's true at all, there are currently almost 120k people playing runescape (oldschool and rs3 combined), which is the most it's been in a very long time.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: sini on September 07, 2015, 11:49:28 AM
The amount of effort you put into making a good RS server is about as equivalent to the amount of effort you'd put in making a game. Which is better in the long term?
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Justin Bieber on September 07, 2015, 12:46:33 PM
Everyone has been saying for years that the reason there's no good shit is because the good developers have better stuff to do with their time. The few good devs that do get involved only do it for the short space of time when they're motivated by the game, or when they're making the transition between being a noob and good enough to work on their own shit. Can't blame them for that. Maybe a community server could be successful if we work out how to capitalise on this group of people and accept the fact that every dev will quit after a few months?
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Lin on September 07, 2015, 01:19:29 PM
As someone who can strongly relate to sini's experience, I don't blame him for going down the route he chose. Getting your hands dirty with RuneScape emulation is really fun. It's a really tough programming challenge to write a server that holds thousands of players, in addition to writing the tons of systems that go into it, especially the content stage. Then you've got client hacking, and there's something unusually rewarding about creating tools that turn someone else's mysterious data into something you can view and even edit. That was my motive behind writing my cache editor. I also really liked the idea of having people write plugins so instead of having just one person writing a massive editor for tons of different data types, people would be able to pitch in. Unfortunately, as with most RS-based projects, this vision didn't become a reality despite all of the effort I put forth. In fact, I don't think a single person uses my cache editor, but it was a fun project and learning experience. At the end of the day, that's what all RuneScape projects are - fun and for the experience. Unfortunately, almost all of us want something more than that. We all like attention, difficult challenges, constantly growing, feeling like we're a part of something big, and yes, even financial rewards. When writing something like a private server from scratch, or a cache editor, you're in it for the fun and challenge mostly. There is no point to actually writing a server that supports 2000 players because you'll never get even a quarter of that, and so you can't help but feel you're wasting your time.

The point I'm trying to make is sort of the only real motive behind RS emulation and whatnot is personal interest, and when that's gone, there isn't much to keep you here. The people here pushing for the community server are probably just looking for an excuse to get back into RuneScape without the grind, fee, etc. I know that's why I wanted to see it happen. If everyone wants the official server to get done so badly, then it's going to take a community effort. Tasking one, or even two people with writing an entire server and content system is a huge undertaking. The best option is probably to start with a pre-written base that doesn't handle like garbage and has a scripting system. The server doesn't need to hold even 100 players, but if it ever gets to that point, then you can start looking at other options. Until then, writing a new base over and over, even though it gets better and better, isn't going to get anyone anywhere but the guy behind it away from the project.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Davidi2 on September 07, 2015, 01:21:59 PM
Until then, writing a new base over and over, even though it gets better and better, isn't going to get anyone anywhere but the guy behind it away from the project.
:rolleyes: He was the one that wanted to write a new base, because he pretty much said the old one "wasnt good enough"; ie: the exact opposite of what you just said
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: asshole_rule on September 07, 2015, 01:41:23 PM
It was stupid of all of us to get our hopes up anyway. It was bound to fail if Sini was involved. So much programming knowledge, such little competence. I wonder what is gonna happen when he gets a real job...

Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: sini on September 07, 2015, 01:48:16 PM
It was stupid of all of us to get our hopes up anyway. It was bound to fail if Sini was involved. So much programming knowledge, such little competence. I wonder what is gonna happen when he gets a real job...

You don't know what I've done outside of RSPS. That's a really bothering comment. I had a period of where I did robotics and robotics programming, that was largely successful. I do better in team environments.

Until then, writing a new base over and over, even though it gets better and better, isn't going to get anyone anywhere but the guy behind it away from the project.
:rolleyes: He was the one that wanted to write a new base, because he pretty much said the old one "wasnt good enough"; ie: the exact opposite of what you just said

It wasn't. I got far with my implementation. It's far better than yours currently. Just didn't make the cut, the effort moving forward was too great.

What does it matter though.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Davidi2 on September 07, 2015, 02:08:37 PM
Until then, writing a new base over and over, even though it gets better and better, isn't going to get anyone anywhere but the guy behind it away from the project.
:rolleyes: He was the one that wanted to write a new base, because he pretty much said the old one "wasnt good enough"; ie: the exact opposite of what you just said

It wasn't. I got far with my implementation. It's far better than yours currently. Just didn't make the cut, the effort moving forward was too great.
See that's where you're wrong, it is good enough for a hosted server. In fact it's better than the majority of hosted servers out there. The problem was that it wasn't good enough for you. Which I can understand as a developer. Nobody thinks the base is perfect, but when the goal is to create a playable server for the community sometimes you have to make the more pragmatic choices.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: sini on September 07, 2015, 02:15:55 PM
Doing that by yourself with the amount of pitfalls and inefficient methods you follow you're just asking for an up hill battle. I think its just futile. Why? We both know no one is going to help you, we both know you don't have the time, and with the amount of time that's required because there are so many John Does trying to set up servers how will it be any different than the 'Mopar' name behind it. If you're still passionate about it, by all means. But I know for a fact you have no, and will not, put as much research into the nuances that me or other people have and I think that's spitting on what could be accomplished. Those efforts are better spent elsewhere. Let nostalgia be nostalgia. Or even better create nostalgia for a new generation of gamers.

Like the gap between what we can never know and what we need to know is way to great to effectively emulate the new revisions. That ALWAYS was an issue. Do you want to spend a ton of time brute forcing and trying to determine file names from the cache? Do you want to write a CS2 decompiler? Do you want to try and decipher every packet, what it does, why? Do you want to effectively write all the systems to support everything in a simple manner? Do you want to write a persistence layer? Do you want to do the data dumping which takes a lot more time than coming up with your own ideas? Do you want to write a tool chain so you can implement new ideas effectively? Do you want to spend the time trying to efficiently design a way to serve files, host players, login players, keep track of other instances (worlds)?

No. You don't. I did. So I took my passion to a project where I could work with people I could effectively do that and have it be worth it because the effort I put in with Thornefall directly translates to how successful it is. You want to create a meager feeling to what playing Runescape at that time would have been. Runescape as a game is literally clicking objects most of the time. To train, for hours. Who really enjoys going through that again. Just go do that on OSRS.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Justin Bieber on September 07, 2015, 02:53:47 PM
It was stupid of all of us to get our hopes up anyway. It was bound to fail if Sini was involved. So much programming knowledge, such little competence. I wonder what is gonna happen when he gets a real job...

You don't know what I've done outside of RSPS. That's a really bothering comment. I had a period of where I did robotics and robotics programming, that was largely successful. I do better in team environments.
wtf ignore that shit, it's completely normal to work on throwaway projects even if you don't initially intend them to be throwaway. the only reason projects succeed in industry is because they're backed by money and have strong project management, and even that can be a bad thing.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Frell on September 07, 2015, 02:55:15 PM
So much programming knowledge, such little competence. I wonder what is gonna happen when he gets a real job...
Horrible comparison, money isn't called the universal lubricant for nothing. In a real environment when the money stops coming your bills stop being paid, and for that reason putting time towards any other project will always be better than reverse engineering/emulating copyrighted software as you can never directly profit from it safely or reliably.

Once you've exhausted the learning opportunities of private servers there's very little motive to continue in that field, especially with the activity of the scene lately.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: tickle me elmo on September 07, 2015, 03:01:14 PM
(https://www.spokeo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/RIP-Spokeo-Info-Bubble.jpg)
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Scape-JAVA on September 07, 2015, 03:28:10 PM
I don't really think anybody is surprised.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Rash on September 07, 2015, 04:43:51 PM
People getting upset with him should really take a good hard look at themselves.

He did this to try to help out this dying- no sorry, dead community and when it turns out that he has over committed himself you jump on him like wolves.

Honestly, just thank him. If you want a server so bad get up and help with it.

EDIT:

I just had a look at thornfall, what sini is leaving to. fudge me I would be gone in a heartbeat to help develop something like that.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Davidi2 on September 07, 2015, 05:04:22 PM
So much programming knowledge, such little competence. I wonder what is gonna happen when he gets a real job...
Horrible comparison, money isn't called the universal lubricant for nothing. In a real environment when the money stops coming your bills stop being paid, and for that reason putting time towards any other project will always be better than reverse engineering/emulating copyrighted software as you can never directly profit from it safely or reliably.
You think thornefall isn't going to get hit by an IP lawsuit? Watch the preview video...

@sini - "let nostalgia be nostalgia" ? Maybe don't go develop a runescape remake then, lol. But yes you're right, you wanted to do those things and I didn't. Honestly I don't care that you quit, it was expected, it's just funny when you go back and look at the posts.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Frell on September 07, 2015, 05:07:35 PM
You think thornefall isn't going to get hit by an IP lawsuit? Watch the preview video...
Nothing will happen for the same reason McDonalds and Burger King can both co exist. The concept of a burger isn't owned by anyone, the concept of a point and click rpg isn't owned by anyone either. Look at Allods/WoW/Runes of Magic.

No IP laws are infringed if Taharok is going about this how i'm expecting him to
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Davidi2 on September 07, 2015, 05:11:34 PM
You think thornefall isn't going to get hit by an IP lawsuit? Watch the preview video...
Nothing will happen for the same reason McDonalds and Burger King can both co exist. The concept of a burger isn't owned by anyone, the concept of a point and click rpg isn't owned by anyone either.

No IP laws are infringed if Taharok is going about this how i'm expecting him to
None of us are lawyers, but Jagex has a whole team of them. I don't think any of us know the ins and outs of IP law, but there is a lot more in common between the two games than just the fact that they are both RPGs.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Frell on September 07, 2015, 05:14:20 PM
None of us are lawyers, but Jagex has a whole team of them. I don't think any of us know the ins and outs of IP law, but there is a lot more in common between the two games than just the fact that they are both RPGs.
The similarities between WoW and Everquest were extremely blatant as well, and look what happened.

You're forgetting very little of Runescape is actually original. Medieval? Historical. The concept of magic? Been around forever. Tile based movement? DnD. Turn based combat? Dnd again I believe. Other than the lore nothing is original.

I think you're just not fully grasping what actually categorizes as IP. Ben and Sini's knowledge of Runescapes workings will definitely be a portal for lawsuits, but they would never be successful.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Davidi2 on September 07, 2015, 05:22:55 PM
None of us are lawyers, but Jagex has a whole team of them. I don't think any of us know the ins and outs of IP law, but there is a lot more in common between the two games than just the fact that they are both RPGs.
The similarities between WoW and Everquest were extremely blatant as well, and look what happened.

You're forgetting very little of Runescape is actually original. Medieval? Historical. The concept of magic? Been around forever. Tile based movement? DnD. Turn based combat? Dnd again I believe. Other than the lore nothing is original.

I think you're just not fully grasping what actually categorizes as IP. Ben and Sini's knowledge of Runescapes workings will definitely be a portal for lawsuits, but they would never be successful.
You can't blatantly copy a games art style and gameplay and think nobody will notice and let it slide. WoW was built from a preexisting art style from the Warcraft games and didn't take that from EQ. I'm not referring to the fact that both games have magic or are medieval or the lore, I'm looking at the screenshots and gameplay video and seeing that you could almost overlay them on top of RS screenshots and a person that hasn't played either (like a judge) might think they are the same game. Hell, even if they changed it to not be tile-based but kept the art style they had right now I'd still say Jagex might try to sue them. Fuck, they can do whatever they want. I just know if I was ever asked to join a project like that I wouldn't for a second assume it was going to be a safe source of income. If I had to guess I'd just say someone got a hardon after seeing your success with Blackwake and can't tell the difference between a unique fun game with a nice niche market and a remake.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Frell on September 07, 2015, 05:34:56 PM
None of us are lawyers, but Jagex has a whole team of them. I don't think any of us know the ins and outs of IP law, but there is a lot more in common between the two games than just the fact that they are both RPGs.
The similarities between WoW and Everquest were extremely blatant as well, and look what happened.

You're forgetting very little of Runescape is actually original. Medieval? Historical. The concept of magic? Been around forever. Tile based movement? DnD. Turn based combat? Dnd again I believe. Other than the lore nothing is original.

I think you're just not fully grasping what actually categorizes as IP. Ben and Sini's knowledge of Runescapes workings will definitely be a portal for lawsuits, but they would never be successful.
You can't blatantly copy a games art style and gameplay and think nobody will notice and let it slide. WoW was built from a preexisting art style from the Warcraft games and didn't take that from EQ. I'm not referring to the fact that both games have magic or are medieval or the lore, I'm looking at the screenshots and gameplay video and seeing that you could almost overlay them on top of RS screenshots and a person that hasn't played either (like a judge) might think they are the same game. Hell, even if they changed it to not be tile-based but kept the art style they had right now I'd still say Jagex might try to sue them. Fuck, they can do whatever they want. I just know if I was ever asked to join a project like that I wouldn't for a second assume it was going to be a safe source of income. If I had to guess I'd just say someone got a hardon after seeing your success with Blackwake and can't tell the difference between a unique fun game with a nice niche market and a remake.
Appreciate the compliment thrown in there, but @ the first part:


I think you're just not fully grasping what actually categorizes as IP.

WoW:
(http://i.imgur.com/removed.png)

Allods
(http://i.imgur.com/removed.png)

Hand painting images isn't copyrightable. Boldly coloring objects isn't copyrightable either. In fact, you can't even say it was a stylistic choice for Jagex and instead more of a limitation, as they jumped ship as soon as their engine could handle it.

It has to be an original idea for you to claim ownership. Being the first to use something that isn't original (alone) in a different context does not make it IP. I believe the line blurs here when unoriginal concepts come together to form something functionally original, but yea. A game doesn't pass for that because many of the concepts are standing alone and aren't derived uniquely enough from the original concept to be IP, such as lore. You can write a book about a school for wizards but you can't call it Harry Potter.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Davidi2 on September 07, 2015, 06:06:39 PM
Again, I'm not referring to simple similarities. I'm talking about the fact it looks like things were taken directly from the game. You can clearly tell when looking at those screenshots you linked that it's a different art style and game, but the Thornefall models look like they could even just be RS models with more triangles in a lot of places. Having a similar art style is not the same as having the same art. Even in the case that they don't get sued or anything, I still wouldn't consider a game remake like that where alternatives already exist to be considered a safe income source. EDIT - Not really worth arguing tbh, they are already working on the project I assume so just time will tell how far they get and if jagex decides to try anything; i just know if it was me i would try to get away from that art style before trying to market it
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Frell on September 07, 2015, 06:16:04 PM
Again, I'm not referring to simple similarities. I'm talking about the fact it looks like things were taken directly from the game. You can clearly tell when looking at those screenshots you linked that it's a different art style and game, but the Thornefall models look like they could even just be RS models with more triangles in a lot of places.
That comes down to the color, then. Many games use similar topology for characters/environments, they use whatever the industry deems most efficient.

Nothing can happen because Jagex was unoriginal to begin with there (because of limitations), you can't copyright color. Tons of game boy games look like the sprites could have been from the same sprite sheet but no one complained. Plus the Runescape the world sees today looks nothing like TF, you can only compare it to OSRS and loosely. Assuming TF goes one step further with ambient occlusion/dynamic day/night cycles etc they've already made it unique enough to stand out.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: mopmans little slave on September 07, 2015, 07:09:59 PM
ironic meme inbound quits rs work to do rs copy work

tom has a fire burning inside of him u will end up dead sini
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Pure_ on September 07, 2015, 07:12:14 PM
i dont think anybody here understands
> massive company
> has 2x lawyers than tf has players
> game is blatently a carbon copy of rs
> expects not to get sued

i honestly think not much will come from either blackwake or thornfall in the end (just my opinion, not a fact, if it turns out both succeeds then great but i dont see it happening)
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: mopmans little slave on September 07, 2015, 07:18:05 PM
i dont think anybody here understands
> massive company
> has 2x lawyers than tf has players
> game is blatently a carbon copy of rs
> expects not to get sued

i honestly think not much will come from either blackwake or thornfall in the end (just my opinion, not a fact, if it turns out both succeeds then great but i dont see it happening)
blackwake is actually getting a decent amount of funding and lots of free mostly positive advertisement from several renowed youtubers i thought, they stand a much greater chance than some god awful hack of a copy kek
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: sini on September 07, 2015, 07:41:13 PM
This is a pretty heated debate. I don't think it matters, and no one here is an expert on IP. So take it with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Frell on September 07, 2015, 07:42:40 PM
TF isn't done, everyone is assuming it's a clone right now
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Tom on September 07, 2015, 08:29:01 PM
TF is a predictable pick, gross gore proved that a while back.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Pure_ on September 07, 2015, 09:26:16 PM
TF is a predictable pick, gross gore proved that a while back.
gets banned too much imo :/
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: arham 4 on September 07, 2015, 11:12:20 PM
The amount of effort you put into making a good RS server is about as equivalent to the amount of effort you'd put in making a game. Which is better in the long term?
Well said Sini!
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Justin Bieber on September 08, 2015, 06:04:06 AM
The amount of effort you put into making a good RS server is about as equivalent to the amount of effort you'd put in making a game. Which is better in the long term?
Well said Sini!
That is not true at all. Imagine writing a client and server, creating assets for it. The whole lot. At least we have a client and assets. Writing a server alone for rsps does not compete.

It's not like we're writing enterprise tier servers either.

Writing your own game is so much better tho at the end result!
except the client isn't open source. maybe in terms of hours it's still easier to reverse engineer than write your own, but still frustrating as fuck
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Justin Bieber on September 08, 2015, 02:29:37 PM
Nobody in this community cares if it's open source.
Reverse engineering is down to how competent of a programmer you are.

I'm only saying making a rsps is easier.
We already have refactored clients available and if you wanted you could create your own game out of it. (Look at that GTA thingy or Harrys fps).

But having your own game, completely made yourself will always be more rewarding than recreating a dying game.
what a dumb post, i dont even... have you read anything in this topic, or even just my post?

Like the gap between what we can never know and what we need to know is way to great to effectively emulate the new revisions. That ALWAYS was an issue. Do you want to spend a ton of time brute forcing and trying to determine file names from the cache? Do you want to write a CS2 decompiler? Do you want to try and decipher every packet, what it does, why? Do you want to effectively write all the systems to support everything in a simple manner? Do you want to write a persistence layer? Do you want to do the data dumping which takes a lot more time than coming up with your own ideas? Do you want to write a tool chain so you can implement new ideas effectively? Do you want to spend the time trying to efficiently design a way to serve files, host players, login players, keep track of other instances (worlds)?
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: EcoPS GM on September 08, 2015, 03:20:49 PM
RIFT and WoW are more similar than WoW and Allods. RIFT practically looks almost exactly like WoW, and no lawsuits have even been thought of. Thornefall and RS will be able to coexist, as Frell has stated. Jagex will probably make empty threats, however.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: arham 4 on September 08, 2015, 05:46:14 PM
Nvm
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: ox random xi on September 08, 2015, 10:11:15 PM
RIFT and WoW are more similar than WoW and Allods. RIFT practically looks almost exactly like WoW, and no lawsuits have even been thought of. Thornefall and RS will be able to coexist, as Frell has stated. Jagex will probably make empty threats, however.
now I believe they should co-exist because competition makes for a better product, but i doubt it'll be empty threats. It'll come down to can TF have enough money for the lawsuits and fighting the empty threats to also exist on its own
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: mopmans little slave on September 08, 2015, 11:46:52 PM
RIFT and WoW are more similar than WoW and Allods. RIFT practically looks almost exactly like WoW, and no lawsuits have even been thought of. Thornefall and RS will be able to coexist, as Frell has stated. Jagex will probably make empty threats, however.
now I believe they should co-exist because competition makes for a better product, but i doubt it'll be empty threats. It'll come down to can TF have enough money for the lawsuits and fighting the empty threats to also exist on its own
tf is a game that will never come to fruition and even assuming a washed up project like a shitty runescape clone ever will come to that point is laughable

gross gore plays a shitty tf tbh =,=
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: drubrkletern on September 09, 2015, 02:08:04 AM
RIFT and WoW are more similar than WoW and Allods. RIFT practically looks almost exactly like WoW, and no lawsuits have even been thought of. Thornefall and RS will be able to coexist, as Frell has stated. Jagex will probably make empty threats, however.
now I believe they should co-exist because competition makes for a better product, but i doubt it'll be empty threats. It'll come down to can TF have enough money for the lawsuits and fighting the empty threats to also exist on its own
tf is a game that will never come to fruition and even assuming a washed up project like a shitty runescape clone ever will come to that point is laughable

gross gore plays a shitty tf tbh =,=
wow senpai waifu desu chan your name is so extravagant..
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: tehjamdude on September 27, 2015, 10:25:16 AM
If you guys need help, I've been thinking of getting back into RSPS.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: mopmans little slave on September 27, 2015, 02:58:50 PM
ur hired lad
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: arham 4 on September 27, 2015, 09:05:16 PM
If you guys need help, I've been thinking of getting back into RSPS.
Its open source..
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: asshole_rule on September 28, 2015, 09:26:01 AM
If you guys need help, I've been thinking of getting back into RSPS.

wow are you serious?

is this THE tehjamdude from DemonWars? You know.. the HD 508?

holy fudgeing shit what the fudgeing fudge this is insane im so glad you came along to further the development of the official server. it will be finished for sure this time :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):)
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Maester_Dreamshot on September 30, 2015, 12:57:57 PM
rip :c
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: n10si t on October 12, 2015, 08:39:35 AM
rofl sinisoul puts in months of hard work and makes incredible progress, realizes there are bigger and better things for him, seizes his opportunity to move on, and u guys get mad and shit on him, what a fudgeing shit community. you people make me ashamed i was ever a part of this

good luck sini in your future endeavors and thank you for your work
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: asshole_rule on October 12, 2015, 09:08:32 AM
rofl sinisoul puts in months of hard work and makes incredible progress, realizes there are bigger and better things for him, seizes his opportunity to move on, and u guys get mad and shit on him, what a fudgeing shit community. you people make me ashamed i was ever a part of this

good luck sini in your future endeavors and thank you for your work

you are forever apart of it... you cant leave
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: n10si t on October 12, 2015, 05:20:52 PM
sigh this is true :-(

Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: TabbyKiller on October 12, 2015, 05:56:04 PM
rofl sinisoul puts in months of hard work and makes incredible progress, realizes there are bigger and better things for him, seizes his opportunity to move on, and u guys get mad and shit on him, what a fudgeing shit community. you people make me ashamed i was ever a part of this

good luck sini in your future endeavors and thank you for your work

you are forever apart of it... you cant leave
part of the ship, part of the crew
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Lothy on October 13, 2015, 12:43:40 AM
rofl sinisoul puts in months of hard work and makes incredible progress, realizes there are bigger and better things for him, seizes his opportunity to move on, and u guys get mad and shit on him, what a fudgeing shit community. you people make me ashamed i was ever a part of this

good luck sini in your future endeavors and thank you for your work

you are forever apart of it... you cant leave
part of the ship, part of the crew

(http://i.imgur.com/XS5LK.gif)




And I agree with the sentiment expressed by n10si. You guys are ingrates.
I still don't understand why Tom was spending money on it though.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Justin Bieber on October 13, 2015, 10:46:08 AM
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: sini on October 13, 2015, 10:51:05 AM
He paid for the machine, I payed for the data services. He did invest a good chunk of cash, I offered to pay him back but. It was an investment on his part.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: casey. on October 13, 2015, 01:57:13 PM
He paid for the machine, I payed for the data services. He did invest a good chunk of cash, I offered to pay him back but. It was an investment on his part.
Sounds like you scammed him. I think you should be banned.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: lare69 on October 13, 2015, 10:10:35 PM
is the framework fully completed? what needs to be done? does the server really need to be over the top? if the framework isn't completed yet we can always just fix up hyperion or something and pack it with content. also i think it should be closed source to the developers or you'll just have people coming along and hosting it for themselves (which could come back to bite us in the ass later...)
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Lothy on October 14, 2015, 01:27:14 AM
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: RuneAgent on October 14, 2015, 04:03:10 AM
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Nucleon on October 15, 2015, 04:20:18 AM
Quote from: Miss Silabsoft
im pretty sure it was just a dedicated server that was being paid for,I'm kind of surprised this didn't come out of the MITB pot of cash but I would assume its because mopar didn't believe sinisoul would actually complete the job, or wanted to wait until something of substance was created.

Then it comes to no surprise that Sini dropped the ball to play somewhere else.

However he should have waited until a new developer was found.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: sini on October 15, 2015, 05:23:03 AM
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Justin Bieber on October 15, 2015, 06:44:05 AM
Quote from: Miss Silabsoft
im pretty sure it was just a dedicated server that was being paid for,I'm kind of surprised this didn't come out of the MITB pot of cash but I would assume its because mopar didn't believe sinisoul would actually complete the job, or wanted to wait until something of substance was created.

Then it comes to no surprise that Sini dropped the ball to play somewhere else.

However he should have waited until a new developer was found.
There should have been more developers anyway, it's not up to sini to arrange this. If I can quit a paid software job in which I hold a good proportion of the teams knowledge with just a weeks notice then a volunteer should be able to quit whenever they please. It's up to the lead to manage knowledge retention, and if we as a community let one person take all that responsibility then we get what we deserve.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Tom on October 15, 2015, 11:03:39 AM
Get me a development team of sufficiently skilled programmers that can comply with this administrations crappy pay system and function together consistently and I'll give you an extra post star. I've spoken to a lot of people and none of them seem to understand the constraints part of planning anything. Given the resources at my disposal (including other, more complicated constraints) this project was given the best conditions to succeed.
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: sini on October 15, 2015, 07:36:28 PM
Get me a development team of sufficiently skilled programmers that can comply with this administrations crappy pay system and function together consistently and I'll give you an extra post star. I've spoken to a lot of people and none of them seem to understand the constraints part of planning anything. Given the resources at my disposal (including other, more complicated constraints) this project was given the best conditions to succeed.


ding ding ding
Title: Re: I'm sorry to announce...
Post by: Nucleon on October 16, 2015, 12:34:48 PM
the only thing I ever admired was their ability to be efficient.

This