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    Messages - Ghost in stack

    Pages: [1]
    1
    Debates / Re: The Bible [Thoughts and Perspectives]
    « on: May 31, 2013, 06:15:53 PM »
    As I have said before, indications about the creation of the universe, the human, animal and plant are set out in the Koran, Now, is it pure chance that all these indications has always been in compliance with modern scientific facts without contradiction ?

    Either way, I'm doubting my own faith because I always feel compelled to justify it by scientific arguments,.. really to me this not the way of acquiring faith.

    The scientific dimension does not favor the development of the faith, there is also the spiritual dimension. So yeah, it was interesting, but now I will refrain from further comments here. Thank you. ;)

    2
    Debates / Re: The Bible [Thoughts and Perspectives]
    « on: May 31, 2013, 04:14:18 AM »
    Ghost: You don't get my point. The Quran is useless to use to predict anything in science, as you're only able to use the Quran after the events have happened.

    oh really? you believe that the Quran is reissued each time there is a scientific discovery ? Do not forget, the Quran was revealed 14 centuries ago.

    It doesn't explain anything in detail, you have to make it fit with what we know.

    I told you that the Quran is not a scientific book, its a book of signs, besides scientific facts are expressed in a clear, simple and concise manner, like I said, God give us and the ability to acquire knowledge and wisdom , he gave us signs (scientific,historical and mathematical miracles as well as predictions)in his book, now it is to people to carry out researches(In a hadith, it is said that man must learn science).

     How many scientists have testify scientific miracles of the Qur'an ?

    why do you people deny the signs of Allah ,when these signs came exactly in agreement with scientific facts?
    Allah said: Quran 7.146: "So That Even Though They See All The Signs They Will Not Believe In Them"

    After all what shall God do if you dont want to believe in Him, no one is forced to believe in Him, we all have free will.

    @Davidi2:   It was preferable that I copy / paste so that you may understand and on top of that have I not provided explanations ?

    @Cole1497: Hi, tell me, why am I "absolutely ridiculous and beyond reason" ?

    3
    Debates / Re: The Bible [Thoughts and Perspectives]
    « on: May 30, 2013, 05:21:03 PM »
    Ghost in stack: Lets give you a real challenge. Using only the knowledge from the Quran, give us the necessary theory for a launching a rocket into space and land on the moon.

    No, you just don't get it, the Quran is not a scientific book. Its purpose is not to establish laws or theories to such or such science, when it evokes some historical or scientific questions it is only intended to develop rational faculties of man and also by exposing some scientific truths, the Quran does not use specific technical terms, but uses terminology that is suitable for any era.

    To get back OT:

    Now the  Quran in fact predicted the landing on the moon(and not the the necessary theory for a launching a rocket into space and land on the moon.)  by using  numerological (abjad) calculations, of course this method of calculation is a form of writing which goes back several centuries and which was widely used before the revelation of the Quran.

    The science of abjad helped to understand the verses of the Holy Quran in another way; since textual analysis of the verses was very difficult to overcome the frontier of interpretation.

    The 1969 Moon Landing is Indicated in the Quran:


    "The Hour has drawn near and the moon has split." (Qur'an, 54:1)

    As we can see, the word "shaqqa--> split" in the above verse is not being used in the sense of "dividing into two" but of "slicing through the soil",  when evaluated in this sense, the meaning of the word "shaqqa-->" in the expression "the moon has split" (Qur'an, 54:1) can be seen to reffering to 1969 moon landing where american astronauts carried out research on the Moon, dug the soil up with various pieces of equipment, split it and carried specimens back to Earth.



    Now, by attributing numerical values to each letter of this verse(in Arabic) according the table of sequential and gematrical values, we can conclude that the total sum of the values of each letter refers to the year 1390 of the Hijri calendar, but if we look closely the year 1390 in the Islamic calendar corresponds to the year 1969 in the gregorian calendar.



    This, one of the greatest landmarks in human history, was indicated 14 centuries beforehand. (Allah knows the truth.) :)

    4
    Debates / Re: The Bible [Thoughts and Perspectives]
    « on: May 30, 2013, 12:51:28 PM »
    Can you give references?

    Some examples:
    Quarks, or subatomic particles in general. (Or even atoms in general)

    Modern science has revealed that the atom once thought to be the smallest particle, can actually be split. This has emerged only in the last century, but was revealed in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.

    "But those who disbelieve say, "The Hour will not come to us." Say, "Yes, by my Lord, it will surely come to you. [ Allah is] the Knower of the unseen." Not absent from Him is an atom's weight within the heavens or within the earth or [what is] smaller than that or greater, except that it is in a clear register" Quran [34:3]

    This verse refers to the omniscience of God, knowledge of all things, hidden or apparent, but also it goes further and states that God is aware of everything, including what is smaller or larger than the atom and so the verse clearly proves that it is possible to something smaller than the atom to exist, a fact discovered very recently by modern science.

    Another point of interest, with this verse:

    "We verily sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance, that mankind may observe right measure; and He revealed iron, wherein is mighty power and (many) uses for mankind, and that Allah may know him who helpeth Him and His messengers, though unseen. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty." Quran 57:25

    The graph below shows the formation energies for different atoms. Indeed the iron atom has the greatest energy when compared to other atoms which confirms what we find in the Quran about this metal.




    Genetic mutation (which we know is real, even if a religion wants to deny that WE are from mutations, they cant deny genetic mutation in general)

    Of course genetic mutation is real but if we're talking about millions of living creatures on the earth that are formed through a process through which numerous complex organs of these organisms such as the ears, eyes, lungs, and wings, underwent "mutations," then evolution and Quran are diametrally opposed.

    Firstly, because these four characteristics of mutations imply that they can not lead to an evolutionary development, mutations do not help to develop the living creatures, on the contrary, they have always been harmful to them.

    Secondly genetic mutation, which is presented as an "evolutionary mechanism," is actually a genetic modification that harms living beings and handicaps and of course a destructive mechanism can undoubtedly not be an "evolutionary mechanism"

    Frankly it's flat out retarded to say all newly discovered scientific information has been mentioned in the Quran, because science textbooks can be longer than the Quran itself, and those could be on only one subject.

    What do you mean ?

    5
    Debates / Re: The Bible [Thoughts and Perspectives]
    « on: May 30, 2013, 12:30:29 AM »
    And you're implying this is exactly what is meant by the passage you posted above and yet in reality without literal interpretation it literally means that one knows that cows produce milk.

    So your'e telling me that the use of the word chyme and blood is unrelated to the matter being considered, since you don't need these words to know that cow produces milk, but no these words are here for a reason. DO you really thing that Allah(SWT) will reveal  a detailed analysis of how milk is formed and synthetized ? No,absolutely not.  After all God gave us a brain, God give us and the ability to acquire knowledge and wisdom , he gave us signs (scientific,historical and mathematical miracles as well as predictions)in his book,  it is the role of men to conduct researches(and not god) with the help of signs and to draw out conclusions.
    For this the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) urged people to learn science and research. He said:

    "The angels spread their wings for the one who seeks knowledge as a sign of satisfaction for what he does"[Reported by Ahmad, Ibn Hibban and Al Hakeem].

    Indeed, the words "chyme" and "blood" were of little importance, but seeing as the man did scientifc discoveires and in particular the formation of milk, we could finally realize that "blood" and "chyme" both had roles in the formation of milk, and therefore one can conclude that the milk would be made from the blood and chyme, quite simply.

    Is it a coincidence that all newly discovered scientific information has been mentioned in the Quran, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago? Tell me.

    6
    Debates / Re: The Bible [Thoughts and Perspectives]
    « on: May 29, 2013, 03:39:22 PM »
    You're just flat out wrong :P First of all, you're extrapolating the very little scientific information you gave to support your case. It doesn't come 'from chyme and from blood' -- it comes from one or the other, depending on how you want to look at it.

    NO , NO and NO, pure white milk is produced in the interaction between chyme and blood, its both because nutrients are extracted from chyme and from there they enter the larger vessels and get involved in the blood circulation.

    Secondly, let's look at the part of the text right before your 'miracle':
    We give you to drink of what is inside their bellies

    Surely your all knowing God that knows how it scientifically works must have known that these reactions and milk formation happens in the mammary glands, not the stomach?

    Not wrong, let me explain

    In other words, the purity of milk is its whiteness and taste among "chyme" and "blood" in the stomach of animals, everything goes to a place when the food reaches the stomach and that by the intermediary of the liver . The blood is pumped through the veins, milk to the breasts, the urine in the bladder and feces outside. But the initial process is done in the stomach. And like you mentioned, milk synthesis happens in the mammary glands.

    EDIT - It appears you have been falsifying your quotes from the Quran as well. Every translation I have says:
    "And indeed, for you in grazing livestock is a lesson. We give you drink from what is in their bellies - between excretion and blood - pure milk, palatable to drinkers."

    chyme is the food being digested, part of the digested food becomes excreted hence the word "excretion", differrent translations but always the same interpretation,  in Arabic, it is authentic  but in English it is translated into its meaning.
    Moreover, the translation can never, ever reflect the intended meaning of this Holy Book. You might be better of learning Arabic, to better understand the Quran.

    So tell me, how does this relate to milk formation again? It's simply stating that cows have milk, instead of just poop and blood. It's not at all trying to say how it is made.

    Milk is an excrement because it is "excreted" by the breasts.
    Milk is actually elaborated from the blood into the breast of the female mammal.

    Thus, the milk would be made ??from the blood and chyme

    How is it that you still do not understand? *sigh*

    7
    Debates / Re: The Bible [Thoughts and Perspectives]
    « on: May 29, 2013, 07:53:48 AM »

    8
    Debates / Re: The Bible [Thoughts and Perspectives]
    « on: May 29, 2013, 04:03:24 AM »
    How the hell is a book referencing an act of nature a 'miracle'? Are you trying to say that the book existed before cows?

    EDIT - I hope you're trolling, sounds like you could be, but it's hard to tell, you sound almost exactly like what a normal brainwashed crazy religious person would :|

    How can anyone in 6th century know without microscope and other modern equipment that white milk forms from red blood ?  I sincerely hope that you're not trolling right now.

    9
    Debates / Re: The Bible [Thoughts and Perspectives]
    « on: May 29, 2013, 03:37:08 AM »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

    And just how these miracles are considered as being a form of apophenia, haven't I demonstrated these miracles from a scientific perspective ? Please explain.
    My views are completely obvious in this thread, and yet I'm going to have to agree with Mopeman.

    Reasoning of that kind reminds me of this.

    Quote
    Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
    John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

    Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860..
    John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960..

    Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.
    Both wives lost their children while living in the White House.

    Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
    Both Presidents were shot in the head.

    Now it gets really weird.

    Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
    Kennedy's Secretary was named Lincoln.



    Both were assassinated by Southerners.
    Both were succeeded by Southerners named Johnson.

    And! Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
    Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

    John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
    Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.

    Both assassins were known by their three names.
    Both names are composed of fifteen letters.

    Now hang on to your seat.

    Lincoln was shot at the theater named 'Ford.'
    Kennedy was shot in a car called 'Lincoln' made by 'Ford.'

    Lincoln was shot in a theater and his assassin ran and hid in a warehouse.
    Kennedy was shot from a warehouse and his assassin ran and hid in a theater.

    Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.

    And here's the kicker...

    A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe,Maryland
    A week before Kennedy was shot, he was with Marilyn Monroe


    I think you are missing the point, or perhaps purposely ignoring..science only deals with things that exist and doesn't give meaning to random data.


    "In 1916, Albert Einstein formulated his General Theory of Relativity that indicated that the universe must be either expanding or contracting.  Confirmation of the expanding-universe theory finally came in 1929 in the hands of the well known American astronomer Edwin Hubble."

    Here's another one:



    God said:

    "And in the livestock there is a lesson for you: we provide you with a drink from their bellies. From the midst of digested food and blood, you get pure milk, delicious for the drinkers. (The Noble Quran, 16:66)"

    what science says about this:

    Milk Biosynthesis
    Milk is synthesized in the mammary gland. Within the mammary gland is the milk producing unit, the alveolus. It contains a single layer of epithelial secretory cells surrounding a central storage area called the lumen, which is connected to a duct system. The secretory cells are, in turn, surrounded by a layer of myoepithelial cells and blood capillaries.
    The raw materials for milk production are transported via the bloodstream to the secretory cells. It takes 400-800 L of blood to deliver components for 1 L of milk.

    Proteins: building blocks are amino acids in the blood. Casein micelles, or small aggregates thereof, may begin aggregation in Golgi vesicles within the secretory cell.
    Lipids:
    C4-C14 fatty acids are synthesized in the cells
    C16 and greater fatty acids are preformed as a result of rumen hydrogenation and are transported directly in the blood
    Lactose: milk is in osmotic equilibrium with the blood
    and is controlled by lactose, K, Na, Cl; lactose synthesis regulates the volume of milk secreted

    from Wikipedia:

    "The carbohydrate lactose gives milk its sweet taste and contributes about 40% of whole cow milk's calories. Lactose is a composite of two simple sugars, glucose and galactose. In nature, lactose is found only in milk and a small number of plants (McGee 17).Other components found in raw cow milk are living white blood cells, mammary-gland cells, various bacteria, and a large number of active enzymes (McGee 16)."

    These miracles are supported by real-world evidence.

    10
    Debates / Re: The Bible [Thoughts and Perspectives]
    « on: May 28, 2013, 12:38:46 PM »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

    And just how these miracles are considered as being a form of apophenia, haven't I demonstrated these miracles from a scientific perspective ? Please explain.

    11
    Debates / Re: The Bible [Thoughts and Perspectives]
    « on: May 28, 2013, 10:28:37 AM »
    Ignorant people make me fall in love with Dawkins even more. The Universe doesn't owe you a meaning, if you want to have a discussion here you should keep yourself to facts, not feelings.

    You have provided no reasoning for God, and you misrepresent scientific theories, yet you claim that we are close minded. So please explain God to us, in whatever gap you managed to put him in.

    Challenge accepted.

    The word "earth" (barr, yabas) appears 13 times in the Qur'an and the word "sea" (bahr) 32 times, totaling 45 references. If we divide this figure by the number of references to the land we arrive at 28.888888888889%. The total number of references to the land and sea, 45, divided by the number of references to the sea in the Qur'an, 32, is 71.111111111111%. What is extraordinary is that these figures represent the exact proportions occupied by land masses and oceans.


    Here's another miracle :

    We will begin with this very explicit verse in which it is written:

    Quran 21.30 "Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"

    "Ratquan" in Arabic means compact mass as welded. This is clearly the primeval atom, set forth in the Western world, in 1931 in the theory of the astrophysicist Abbe Georges Lemaitre. And resumed unanimously by all modern astrophysicists.

    From that original atom, of an incredible density, the Heavens and the Earth (meaning the universe) were separated (Fafataqnahouma), which means break with the notion of power and strength. This mass would have been broken up to form the universe and all its contents. A simple and concise statement of what was an explosion (big bang) that preceded the appearance of the universe.


    Who says explosion necessarily says expansion. The Holy Book reveals to us the phenomenon of expansion in these terms:

    Quran 51.47 "And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander."

    Which was translated as "expander" concerns the word "awasaea" which means: to expand, extend, make wider, more spacious when it comes to an object.

    The Quran came in 6th century, when there was no modern technology to discover these things, and God promised us in quran to show us in future these scientific miracle which we can now see. :)

    12
    Music / Re: What are you listening to..?
    « on: August 24, 2011, 03:22:16 PM »
    Scream - Avenged Sevenfold

    13
    General Discussion / Re: IRL pictures of you
    « on: August 02, 2011, 05:02:56 AM »


    A year old, but the most recent one i have.

    You seem familiar...:rolleyes:

    14
    Music / Re: What are you listening to..?
    « on: May 15, 2011, 01:24:32 PM »
    Linkin Park - new divide

    15
    Server Tutorials / Re: How to Start a Server
    « on: March 07, 2011, 04:31:04 PM »
    Not bad at all  :D

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